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Touhou Nekokayou #102: Touhou Saisoutensoku #9: Faith Is For The Transient Boss Battle

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Touhou Nekokayou: Scarlet Weather Archive in Japanese Red #102

Touhou Nekokayou: Scarlet Weather Archive in Japanese Red #102a

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Characters: Reimu Hakurei, Marisa Kirisame, Rin Satsuki, Sanae Kotiya, Suwako Moriya, Meimu

東方再想天則 〜 Rethinking the Natural Law (Touhou 12.3i) begins here. I think we're pretty much winding down here, really. One or two more after this, most likely. And if you don't get the title, you'll find it here.

I decided to make the conversation-with-Rin segment shorter. I'm trying to cut back on the walls of text ...

In any case, I feel that Rin's assessment about edges-vs-boundaries is correct (if you allow for "in magic, semantic nonsense = huge difference"). Boundary of life and death? That's the edge of life and the edge of death, obviously. Boundary of land and sea? Still easy, just pick which one you want to manipulate, and the other follows! Boundary of mountain and sky? That's a tough one, since that "boundary" is a metaphorical construct based on how high the mountain is and how far the horizon is, and moving the horizon (edge of vision?) would involve more major hax than that.1 The body is the boundary between the self and the world? Man, I don't even know how to start converting that into "edge" terms.

(... Oh, look, in the comments, Tunod came up with a much more comprehensible description!)

The Multitasked Conversation (Warning, link leads to TVTropes. Muffin will not be held responsible for hours of time lost as a result of following it.But see also this disclaimer) was ... fun. Dialogue contrivance is as dialogue contrivance does, I guess, and it's fun making dialogue that works whether you ignore Meimu or Suwako. My favorite example of this was in panel 18, in which Sanae's dialogue means something completely different. The "Makai" bit is a reference to Undefined/Redefined Fantastic Object, though I'll say no more than that.

I just used Sanae's original create.swf design because of consistency with previous installments of this storyline. Whoops! Time for Painting The Fourth Wall (Warning, link leads to TVTropes. Previous disclaimer appliesBut see also this disclaimer) some more! In case you thought I wasn't spoiling Touhou 12.3 with this, "self-reliance" and "wtf doing stuff witout telling anyone" was basically the whole reason Sanae fought Suwako at the end of her story mode, so I figured I ought to deal with that here.

I promise the next time I make a custom-made background, it will be less loading-times-intensive than Gap Land ...


  1. (Marisa, Reimu, Rin at the Shrine, etc.)
    Marisa: So what *is* Meimu, anyways?
    Rin: She is a "Manipulation of Whatever" youkai with power over edges.
    Reimu: Is that like manipulation of boundaries?
  2. Rin: Nah, you can make the case that anything's a boundary, but some things *totally* aren't edges.
    Reimu: Okay. I think I know enough for now. How do we get to "Gap Land"?
  3. Marisa: Actually, first, how exactly is Meimu doin' time-travel? Like ... movin' the "edge of possibility" closer to herself?
    Reimu: ... wait, what?
    Rin: No, she's just manipulating the edges of the cracks in the shattered history.
  4. (Reimu turns to face Marisa. Rin puts down her tea and gets up.)
    Reimu: You seem rather ... well-versed in this kind of thing.
    Marisa: That's cuz it's a lot of magic, ze. Blowin' stuff up ain't *all* I'm good at, doncha know! It's just all I usually *do*!
    Rin: Right. Anyway ...
  5. (A view of the Shrine's arch. Yukari is arriving via a gap.)
    Rin: (off-panel) ... I think we'll have to wait a bit before I answer your question, Reimu.
    Reimu: (off-panel) Uh-oh.
  6. (Long panel: Sanae arrives in Gap Land through an aperture, which closes behind her. Meimu looking up in anticipation.)
    SFX: BEOom
    Sanae: Hmm ...
    Meimu: Hello, hello!!
  7. Sanae: So this is where I'm supposed to find "answers or more interesting questions"?
    Meimu: Hmm? Oh, could be! I am Meimu, the mysterious youkai from the future! I have come to make sure that, um, certain events happen the way I want them to!
  8. Sanae: (sweatdrop) Um ... really?
    Meimu: (mildly perturbed) Huh?
    Sanae: Sorry, I mean, I gave up being surprised or confused about when I heard Reimu had gone to the moon on a bamboo rocket, I'm just having trouble taking you seriously.
  9. Meimu: Hey!
    Sanae: Sorry, um, really though ... You look like a ten-year-old human, and your attitude plus your outfit ... well ... What year are you from?
  10. Meimu: Um ... 174, but ...
    Sanae: Yeah, I don't know what fashions are ... going to be like, but you really just seem kind of silly, overall.
  11. Meimu: Hmph! I'll show you how powerful I *really* am!
    Sanae: ... and now you sound almost as immature and self-centered as Cirno.
  12. Meimu: Argh, that's not how this conversation was supposed to go!
    Sanae: Well, um, how did you want it to go?
  13. (At this point, Suwako attempts to contact Sanae. This is depicted via Suwako's semitransparent disembodied head appearing above Sanae with green text next to it.)
    Meimu: (obviously frazzled) Uh, well ... You were, um, you're not as famous as Reimu, and, um, you can never beat her ...
    Suwako Telepathy: Sanae? Can you hear me? Sa -- Oh, *there* you ... Where *are* you!? You okay? How you doing?
    Sanae: Um, fine.
  14. Meimu: (oblivious) Huh? You're not going to be like most Gensokyo people and fly into a pride-filled rage?
    Suwako Telepathy: Dang, Makai was bad enough, but ... uh ... I hope you don't think you're gonna need help from me and Kanako?
    Sanae: No, not really.
  15. Meimu: Oh, right, your gimmick is "the newcomer" and "more humble than other people."
    Suwako Telepathy: Yeah, I think we won't be able to ... um ... your curtness is more than just trying to make it sound like you're talking to that girl, isn't it?
    Sanae: Uh, right.
  16. (Meimu faces away from Sanae, who now actually looks up at Suwako.)
    Meimu: Well, anyway, I guess this is gonna work out better than the last time I lured someone in here ...
    Suwako Telepathy: Look, if this is about me making Hisou Tensoku and not telling anyone, I know stuff like that caused problems before, but ...
    Sanae: Um, no, regardless of what happened "before," that's bad in and of itself.
  17. SFX: in what she thinks is a clever, manipulative manner
    Meimu: (leaning back toward Sanae) So you don't think I'm not worth fighting?
    Suwako Telepathy: ... but *as I was saying*, is this really the time to talk about it?
    Sanae: ... I guess not.
  18. Meimu: Hah! Your gods are too far away to help you here! Without them, you're almost nothing!
    Suwako Telepathy: (smiling now) Right. Now, this is going to be kinda tough without our help ...
    Sanae: In all honesty, I really don't think I *need* the power of the gods right now. You're almost ... well, a mild hindrance.
  19. (Meimu and Sanae both charge at each other, Sanae brandishing her miko-stick and also suddenly in her updated-create.swf version.)
    Meimu: Well, if you're gonna be like *that*, I'm gonna take you out in one blow!
    Suwako Telepathy: (bashful sweatdrop) Aha, whoops, I'm distracting you, aren't I? Never mind, I'll shut up now ...
    Sanae: Okay then!
  20. (Meimu is now lying on the ground, foaming at the mouth, with bullets and blue amulets sticking out of her. An Aperture opens in front of Sanae.)
    SFX: ZUN
    Sanae: Right! -- Oh, there we go ...
  21. (Sanae arrives at the Moriya Shrine in front of a nervous-looking Suwako.)
    SFX: BEOom
    Suwako: (sweatdrop) So, uh, if I compliment you on your self-reliance, will you give me less of a verbal-lashing over the deal with Hisou Tensoku?
    Sanae: (in the middle of a large empty speech bubble) No.

1I should note that, even though I haven't yet established this in-story as of this writing, having an ability doesn't mean you can do anything with it, i.e. just because you can manipulate boundaries or edges or nature or whatever doesn't mean you are a god unto anything that seems to fall under your "jurisdiction." It's like, most people can do all kinds of things with their hands, but that doesn't mean they can do the same things to a freight train. (Remember, even Yukari needed Reimu's help to cause the Imperishable Night, and she needs to hax a reflection of the full moon to get to the Lunar Capital.)

All Touhou characters are © Team Shanghai Alice and/or ZUN; create.swf is ⑨ KirbyM with help from Thefre. "Sakura petals" brush in main/4koma logo was made by Kisara Girl. "Falling leaves" brush in 60-Years logo came with Photoshop.

15 Comments (auto-closed) (rss feed)


My counterpoint to your footnote:

Yukari used a reflection of the moon to get to the real thing by erasing the border of truth and lies. If that's not godlike I don't know what is.


So that means the storyline's going to end next comic, right?

I must admit, the whole "boundarys vs. edges" thing had me feeling lost again... but unlike previous time, I was able to dismiss it as simple magibabble stuffz.

Uh, wait, does Meimu have... cotton in her mouth? I think?


I thought you said you couldn't see Eye 2 through Sanae (2)'s hair.


@CapedLuigisYoshi I think she's foaming at the mouth.

As someone who is writing his own laws of magic, allow me to try and understand the difference between Boundaries and Edges. Boundaries have a direct cause-effect reaction cause by moving, reversing, creating or eliminating metaphorical separations in definition. To use an example from the comic the "Boundary of Tsundere and Yandere" moving the boundary would turn certain examples of tsundere into yandere and if you were to move it in the opposite direction vice versa. reversing it would make all tsundere into yandere and vice versa. creating another boundary would make a third category distinct from the other two (say at the far from the "yandere" end of the spectrum yukari created another boundary creating "kuudere"). eliminating a boundary makes all examples of the two land somewhere in the middle ground exhibiting traits of both. Manipulating edges is like moving one of two perfectly aligned pieces of paper. Moving the sheet away from the other leaves a space between the two sheets. Moving it towards it makes it overlap. But unlike boundaries edges have to have an obvious dichotomy where boundaries can be on a sort of "gradient". If I understand all of this correctly, "Gap Land" is a crack of the shattered history which Meimu spirits away people to by manipulating the edge of their current location and Gap Land so there is an overlap and manipulating it back so her target is only in Gap Land. And I'm guessing Meimu's Apertures are to edges as Yukari's Gaps are to boundaries. tl;dr version. boundary hax=hue slider in photoshop, manipulates gradients. edge hax=two pieces of paper on a desk, manipulates difference between black and white and can create overlaps and separations.


changing clothing mid-battle now, eh Sanae?

just a matter of time before she completely snaps


The way I look at it is slightly different, and a bit simpler. An edge is 'where something ends, generally abruptly'. A border is 'the defined boundary of something'. A border may be an edge, but also may not, and where you have one does not necessarily mean the other exists - the 'edge of a cliff' is not a border, for example, and 'the border of a country' is not really an edge.

Dizzy H. Slightly Voided

@Tunod: Yes, but it is only a little border of truth and lies. ;3

@CapedLuigisYoshi: Mm, I think if I don't rush things or make something 60 panels long, I think I've got enough for two comics. And yes, like it says in the script, she is foaming at the mouth.

@sRc: Nah, just drawing-style. :3


Edges, Not Boundaries.

Now I can see why thay Square.


@ Tunod, that's basically what I said but better expressed. I wrote that while half-awake so I couldn't make a good short version, thanks though!


So I think the question on everyone's* mind is:

Can Meimu manipulate a Mobius strip?

*For small values of "everyone."


Seeing Meimu get pwned never gets old.


Just read all through from the first to the last... enjoying the comic, keep it up!

The Watcher

Did I miss something? There was no update, this week. o_O

@Duran: I know. Kill the Mary Sue! >:D

Dizzy H. Slightly Voided

You missed my Twitter notes saying I was sick.

The Watcher

Ah, sorry. I don't follow Twitter.