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Touhou Nekokayou #83 (60 Years): Family Matters


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Touhou Nekokayou: Scarlet Weather Archive in Japanese Red #83

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Characters: Elis, Carroll Kirisame, Shanghai Margatroid

The real challenge for this comic entailed coming up with a third party who would (a) be on speaking terms with Marisa's family, and (b) would plausibly have not spoken with Marisa's family since Carroll was concieved (or at least not in enough detail that they'd already have been hit by the punchline). I mean, apart from anything else, look at the number of characters who have directly interacted with Marisa (in this comic) during the year between SA and UFO alone. In the end I decided it would make the most sense to be someone from Makai, but not someone particularly close to Shinki or otherwise in-the-know. Then I took this idea to its logical conclusion.

The next hard part was coming up with a title which was simultaneously amusing and fit the comic without completely telegraphing the punch line. (Thank you, John Evans.) If you completely don't get it, look up Heather Has Two Mommies.

You know, I just love Elis's expression in panel 6 for some reason. It required three different Accessories at once; I faked that by snapping the panel with just the "red cheek-mark", then changing the accessory to "sweatdrop" and resizing Cropper to only get the portion of the panel with the sweatdrop in it and putting that into the first image, then changing it to "eyebrows" and resizing Cropper to only get the portion with that in it ...

Of note: Carroll and independent-doll-Shanghai are the only characters besides Alice who have mothers who are directly present in this comic. Honorable mention goes to Chen, given the way her relationship with Ran often behaves.

I was originally going to do the punchline David Caruso style, but I couldn't get the sunglasses to look right. marishrug.jpg


  1. (Carroll and Shanghai are standing around in a forest; Elis comes up behind them.)
    Carroll: (annoyed) Well I'm not the one who set up that prank in the first place!
    Shanghai: (smirking) Yeah, but Carroll, I'm not the one who fell for it.
    Elis: Ah ... "Carroll"? You're Carroll Kirisame?
  2. (They turn around to face her.)
    Carroll: Huh? Um, yeah, that's who I am ...
    Shanghai: Oh, you must be one of those tourists from Makai, hi.
    Elis: Aheh, yeah, my name is Elis ... it's just, I've heard about, um, well, Marisa Kirisame is your mother, isn't she?
  3. Shanghai: (slyly) Mm, actually, our mother is Alice Margatroid (I'm Carrol's amounts-to-the-same-thing-as-sister).
    Carroll: Yeah, I'm Shinki's biological granddaughter.
    Elis: Oh, right, I knew that! Um ... so, you aren't related to the Witch of Gensokyo that way?
  4. (Shanghai smirks.)
    Carroll: Actually, I am.
    Elis: You're what?
    Carroll: Marisa Kirisame's biological daughter.
  5. Elis: (staring) What!? But ... your father ...
    Carroll: She *is* my father!
    Shanghai SFX: hee hee
    Elis: What is this I don't even
  6. Carroll: (obnoxiously cheerful) Yeah, they said they used "strange magic" and refused to elaborate.
    Elis: (with an expression of utter bewilderment) Oh ... some sort of ... "pregnancy between two females" magic ...
    Shanghai: It's so much more fun explaining it *this* way, huh, Carroll?
  7. Elis: (turning to run) Argh, you're being mean to me! I'm gonna tell your mom!!
    Shanghai: Our mom? You'll have to be more specific than that, Elis ...
    Carroll: (thought cloud) Hm ... I think we're about to get in trouble ...
  8. (Elis runs away)
    Carroll: Is that so?
    Shanghai: Yeah, because we have two mommies.

All Touhou characters are © Team Shanghai Alice and/or ZUN; create.swf is ⑨ KirbyM with help from Thefre. "Sakura petals" brush in main/4koma logo was made by Kisara Girl. "Falling leaves" brush in 60-Years logo came with Photoshop.

25 Comments (auto-closed) (rss feed)


You forgot the TV Tropes link this time: (INSERT USUAL WARNINGS HERE).

Tewi Inonymous

Seeing as there magician youkai, they probably just magicked up a daughter. I mean they probably can't reproduce anyways since magician youkai propagate through study.

I reject the obvious possibility out of hand.


I'm pretty sure that's just an alternate method.

But then, I'm in favor of all three of the obvious possibilities. `.`

Dizzy H. Slightly Voided

@Tewi Inonymous: Actually, according to Perfect Memento, there's two versions of youkai magicians: those who were born that way, and age like humans until they learn the right magic to become full-youkai-magician (e.g. Patchouli, Carroll), and those who were originally humans but transformed themselves once they learned the right other magic (e.g. Alice, Marisa).

And one does not simply magic up a daughter. You mean like magicking up a world? Magicking up an Independent Doll? Magicking up the Hakurei Border? :P

And even then, what kind of being would it be? How stable would her existence be? Would they need to continuously sustain the spell which supports her existence? Could somebody break the spell, and if they did, would this effectively kill her or would they be able to "restore" her? These are all questions which, one instinctively feels, would be better suited to an Independent Doll than a biological daughter. Much simpler to merely exchange DNA and get pregnant the normal way (for a given value of "normal"). :3


Perfect Memento's explanation of Alice is disturbingly similar to the traditional high fantasy interpretation of a "Lich".

Tewi Inonymous

No them doing it the normal way isn't simpler. The normal way involves a lot of genetics that a simple equipment swap isn't going to get around.
Viable seed requires a Y chromosome for instance, something both would be lacking. Even if produced from genetic samples in a laboratory viable seed can't be created without a Y chromosome.
Much easier to use some sort of magical cloning technique, than to figure around the problems of an equipment swap. I mean sure it's magic, it might be able to do it, but it wouldn't be simpler.

TA: I always assumed that's what youkai magician meant, yeah.

Dizzy H. Slightly Voided

Actually, not quite. The Y chromosome is needed to produce male offspring, but a human sperm containing only X chromosomes would work perfectly fine if it's a daughter you're after. See also: Female sperm, a concept which is scientifically plausible without magic (even if it hasn't been successful in producing it for humans — but science marches on, and this story takes place in 2064). In short, "I never said anything about an equipment swap." ;3

Besides, why the hell are we talking about what's biologically plausible for a couple in which both partners, regardless of gender, are youkai?


This comic was just an excuse to start up discussions about yuri reproduction wasn't it?

That said, I see it as perfectly reasonable for FUTURE MAGIC to be precise enough to alter the DNA in a semen sample. Futa-magic optional

Dizzy H. Slightly Voided

Nah, the point was the "has two mommies" line.


Genetics is too widely understood in our world for it to exist in Gensokyo. They work off Lamarckian inheritance, or something like that.

Dizzy H. Slightly Voided

I think you've got it wrong — active belief doesn't prevent something from existing in Gensokyo — I mean, humans exist there, don't they? It's just that active disbelief allows things to exist there. So, yes, something akin to Lamarckian inheritance might work, although it isn't clear how the question of whether or not an average Gensokyo native knows the word "Lamarckian" might affect things ...

God damn I'm a Touhou nerd. |3

Tewi Inonymous

The fact there both youkai is why i assumed they magicked up children in the first place :P.

Anonymous: Shush you, no interrupting my fun.
P.S. Gensenkyo has humans and gravity.


Actually, whether or not Gensokyo ACTUALLY has gravity is up for debate.


"but science marches on, and this story takes place in 2064"
HAH! You've given up your "some time later" cover, Muffin!

...wait, 2004 was when PCB through IN happened. And also, that would mean the majority of the comic happened before MoF. Though I have no clue how you're passing time in this so maybe this was just a Massive Waste of Time.

Dizzy H. Slightly Voided

Oh, I gave up "sometime later" weeks ago. Also, I'm bumping the continuity a year back; 2004 is when PoFV happened. The majority of the comic, as I've said in several places, takes place between SA and UFO. :P


Which means World War II happened in 1944, not '45, yes?

Heh, remind me to pay attention when I read webcomics.


Er, or rather, the bombings and whatnot in '45 were moved to '44.

Not quite a time paradox but still fairly wonky!

Dizzy H. Slightly Voided

No, just the in-Touhou continuity ;P

Facteur Rien

What a mischevious little doll. I wonder if Caroll has borned in the same way of Medicine Melancholy...
Just kidding! Next time, can you show us Mima, please?

cirno (9)

hey, thanks for the help muffin! now i can spoiler stuff!
the next comic will have Mimaz in it!

Dizzy H. Slightly Voided

I'm tempted to make "IS MIMA GONNA BE IN THE NEXT ONE!? IS MIMA GONNA BE IN THE NEXT ONE!?" a "delete your post without warning" offense :P

Tewi Inonymous

But if we can't make "IS MIMA GONNA BE THE NEXT ONE!?" posts, i cannot sarcastically make them to mock the idea that it's always going to be mima.

Dizzy H. Slightly Voided

And now, since it turns out that the Meiji period actually began in 1868, it appears that "1885" was right after all. D'oh! (I'm keeping most of these comics back in 2064, though, I've got Plans for "Flower View II" ...)

Margatroid Fan

Umm... I was wondering if I could have the DNA ode for Carroll because my friend really likes Carroll's design & would like to make a few walfas-strips that includes Carroll. Also I love all of these walfas-strips x3

Dizzy H. Slightly Voided

Oh? Er, hmm. Why don't you have your friend email me.